Hannah: So I’m Hannah Porter, I own Bear & Moo, which is an online baby retailer. So we started in 2018 with reusable cloth nappies as our core product and it’s grown from there. So that is still our, I guess hero product. But we do the whole spectrum of baby, kids, parenting products now.
Sarah: What was your process at the beginning in order to pick, you know, how did you decide what you were going to do and why?
Hannah: So I always say that people probably assume that because we do a product that’s focused on being environmentally friendly, that my kind of why was some big environmental martyrdom thing. And it really wasn’t. The business, the concept of starting an e-commerce business came because I was home with two kids, I didn’t want to go back to an eight till five job and I wanted to make money in a way that wasn’t in a direct exchange of time for money. So I knew that I wanted to do something in e-commerce. I’d never done e-commerce before, I was like I’ll give it a go and see how it works. And then it came down to product. So I kind of tossed around a few ideas and realized the market was quite flooded in a few areas. And then we used cloth nappies with our boys. And at the time the options were really expensive or cheap, but not so cute, kind of average, but they did the job. And I kind of figured there had to be a middle ground so our, our price point was always based around getting parents to be willing to give cloth nappies a go. So we’ve got like it’s quite an, it’s an entry level nappy that does the job, that it isn’t super fancy and does all 50 million things. It just is a good basic nappy to get people
started at an affordable price point. And so that was where we started. We did a, we did a first shipment that was just nappies and then we added other nappy related products, wet bags, extra inserts, cloth wipes, breast pads, sanitary pads and it just kind of grew. And then we started stocking other, other brands as well and now we’ve got fifteen hundred products on the website or something. So just, it’s just kind of skyrocketed from there a little bit.
Sarah: So for those of you that don’t know, or haven’t come across Hannah’s business before, she gave you a little bit of insight there in saying she had fifteen hundred products on the website at the moment, to the size and the growth that they have had. When did you know that things were going to take off and they were going in the direction that you wanted them to go in?
Hannah: I think I, they’ve always gone OK, like right from day dot. We, like the first night we launched, we launched with preorders and we had a handful of orders. And I didn’t, it didn’t need to be hundreds or millions, but I was like cool, OK, maybe, maybe there is going to be a market. And it just it’s always kind of steadily grown you know, we, we did a couple of hundred dollars that first month and I was stoked, and then we you know got to the point we were doing maybe a thousand dollars a month and then a couple of thousand a month. And then it really, really took off when Covid kicked in last year for us, which is a very weird thing to not be happy about, but I knew that so many businesses were struggling and we, we weren’t we, obviously a lot of our audience is stay at home moms or even working moms, but often it’s younger children. So they’re often still at home on maternity leave. And suddenly they couldn’t go out and they couldn’t go to lunch and they couldn’t buy coffee and they couldn’t do things. And so they had more disposable income and they were going to be home for a month and they didn’t want to go
to the supermarket to find nappies and so there seemed to be this collective around the country where they went, maybe we’ll try cloth. And it really did take off you know, we were suddenly having eighty thousand dollar months that were just doubling what we had been doing and it again just continued to grow from there. So I think we’ve been lucky that we’ve always had a little bit of growth each month and we could see that there was demand. But now it’s yeah, now it’s consistent and we know that we’ve got a good thing I guess.
Sarah: Where did those first few handful of orders come from? What had you been doing before then, before you did that first preorder?Â
Hannah: So social media was pretty much all we had done. So I had a Facebook page and Instagram page set up. I was never a big Instagram user before that, I had an account but I didn’t exactly post on it regularly, but I knew that was kind of an audience. I knew that there was an audience of moms on there who used it for engagement and connection with other people and things like that. So we had both of those accounts set up and then we set up a Shopify website. Or I set up a Shopify website. And it was, I guess, like I kind of invited friends and family to like the pages at the beginning and then tried to use hashtags and tried to find other cloth nappy parents and the cloth nappy pages and did a little bit of that, you know, trying to use the right hashtags and finding, and finding those people so that they could find us. But it was slow growth to begin with. Then we did things like giveaways and partnering with other groups, other pages that maybe had more followers than us to see if we could try to help some of their audience come over and then moving into a little bit of influencer marketing and brand reps and things like that to help get the name out there. So, yeah, it was I think the growth has been consistent with how we’ve expanded on the marketing over time as well.
Sarah: Definitely. It’s really interesting that you talk about where you were beforehand with Instagram and things like that and how pivotal that plays as a role in your business now, and that’s probably the key aspect that’s grown, the “cult” following that you have is through that personal connection with you, largely by Instagram.
Hannah: We wouldn’t have a business without Instagram.Facebook is, definitely still has its place. We’ve got a Facebook group as well as the Facebook page, and they are both running Facebook ads and the group and all of that has been really, really good. But it’s the personal connection you get from Instagram through Instagram stories and things that has made the difference I think, because a lot of people have often said that they’d buy from us because they feel like they know me and they know where their money is going and they know that I’m relatable or things like that and I think that that’s what you get when you do Instagram stories from your house in your dressing gown, just dealing with my life.
Sarah: Totally relatable for your audience.
Hannah: Exactly. There is no perfection on my Instagram page that’s for sure.Â
Sarah: At what point did you get to in your business where you were like, I can’t do this alone. And how did you decide what things you need, what support you needed first, right from having someone to help you pack, through to everything else?
Hannah: Yes. The packing was probably one of the last ones that came about so, well, I mean, you know my husband would help at home or my mom or every now and then somebody might come and give me a hand. But it was the things that I knew weren’t my strengths. So I can pack an order. It’s not, it’s not a difficult thing to do. And most people could pack an order. Once you know the system and you know how we do it, it’s easy to teach. But my first step was what are
the things that are taking up more time? If I look at what I want to pay myself hourly, and I look at how many hours something is going to take me, can I pay somebody less than that, to get the job done faster and better? So marketing was one of the first ones we did, in two fold so we have somebody who takes our photos for us and schedules our social media posts, I still do all the stories and all the back end, but she she kind of has that eye for the, the visual pretty Instagram feed that I just don’t have at all. And then working with you guys was, you and I caught up and had a had of coffee and I said, look, I’ve been to a lot of Facebook Ads and courses and I’ve been to a lot of, done free webinars and done all of that. And I totally get what it is that we’re trying to achieve, just don’t care. I just don’t care enough about the stats, I don’t care, like I can’t look at ads and look at the analytics and go, OK, so this means that I should pause this ad and put more budget in here and change this text and all of that, like I know logistically all of that, but the energy and the time it would have taken me to get it right. I’d rather pay somebody to get it right, either from the first time or figure out there’s a problem really quickly and fix things. And so that was just for me, it was it was a no brainer. You’ve got to spend money to make money, if you’re putting money in ads and it’s returning revenue, then you can put more money in ads and return more revenue. But I, I was I feel like I’d be throwing
money at a wall and seeing what sticks. Where I could pay somebody who knows what their doing and kind of, can put a plan in place that makes sense for our business.
Sarah: It’s quite interesting because both of those two things you identified, there’s an energy component to them, like if you were to go and and work out how to create these pretty photos or to get into the nitty gritty of ads for you it would be quite energy draining. So not only did find the time for money thing, but the stress and the you know, what parts you don’t want to do anymore and just not doing them.
Hannah: And then from there it became about the start packing was kind of the next element. And that literally came down to the fact that I had limited hours when my kids were at school or at kindy to get work done. And I was spending pretty much all of those hours packing orders. By the time I’d packed the orders and I was like, OK, what’s the next goal? I’d be looking at the clock going well now I’ve got to go pick the kids up. So I never had any time to grow the business because all my time was spent getting orders out. And that was the point where I was like OK, I need somebody else to be packing the orders so that I can do bigger stuff. I can do strategy and planning and growth and look at new products and do all of that stuff because and I mean, now we’ve got somebody down here full time who would spend 60 to 70 percent of her working week sending out orders and then there’s other tasks on top of that. But that’s, again, being an indication of, OK, what else do I want you to do? Do you have time to do that? No. OK, well lets hire somebody else to help you pack orders and then you can do
the next stage, you know? So it’s kind of that once, once people reach capacity that’s continuing to grow.
Sarah: It must be so exciting thinking of that, what you’ve just said and putting yourself in your shoes back, when you started and thinking that that was even a possibility.
Hannah: Yeah. I mean, we hired our first staff member in May last year. Before that, we had casuals who came and helped out with packing and started because I think I just looked exhausted on Instagram and I started getting messages saying hey can we help you pack. And for a long time I was like, no, no, no, we’re fine. And then I was like, actually, yes. Like, yeah, I’d be stupid to say no. Come and help. That’d be great. And it was mums, it was customers, people, people who already liked the product, people who already knew of me, and I would give them product in exchange for coming and helping out. And then I realized that I was not asking them to help because I didn’t like the fact that I wasn’t paying them, and I felt guilty that they were coming down, and so then I made everybody go on casual contracts so I could pay them for their time. And again, that was the next stage of, you know, getting getting people down there more often because, because I was paying them. And then that turned into our first part timer, which turned into a full timer which turned into what it is today.Â
Sarah: So other than other than Covid having a big impact on things, I think looking at the decisions that you made and the things that you had control over, what do you think was some of the more important decisions that really either changed the direction for you or helped to accelerate things forward?Â
Hannah: I think one of the big things has been talking to your customers, engaging with your customers. So we, a lot of people looked at all the extra brands that we stock and all the other products that we stock and kind of go, how do you, how do you know what to buy? And I’m like, I ask. I put a question box on Instagram. I’ll ask in the Facebook group and go, hey, what do you guys want us to solve? And then I buy it. And if it sells, we keep stocking it. And if it doesn’t sell, then we go, OK, well, we tried it and that didn’t work for us and for our customers, cool we won’t do that anymore. So there’s been trial and error. But I think the growth has come from being able to take that risk and go, we don’t have to buy five hundred of something. We can buy a handful and see if we like it and see how it sells and if it sits on the shelf forever then we won’t do it anymore. So I think that’s been a big one. And then I think building reputation has been really important. So a lot of that’s come from that social media getting to know people. But if somebody sends a Facebook message or an email or whatever, replying you know, as fast as you can and being personable about it, and if they’ve got an issue, fixing it and not, you know, not asking 50 million questions under the sun to make them feel like they’re in the wrong because something broke, just fix it. Just replace it. Because that word of mouth and that good customer service is what keeps people coming back. And now I know in the Facebook group, if anybody has an issue and they post about something all the customers will be jumping on saying oh just email them, they’ll sort it out. And that’s what you want to be known for. You know, you want to be known for the fact that you’re just going to sort things out and it’s not going to be a big deal. Yeah. So I think that just helped repeat customers come back because they got to the point where they were just shopping from us because they liked us and they wanted to support us, not because they actually needed more things.
Sarah: No that’s the best, the cult following. New prints!
Hannah: Yeah new prints. And then it was okay, so our customers that have been with us from the beginning probably don’t need nappies anymore so what else might they like, you know, if they already know us and like us and want to buy from us, what else might they, might fit their kids as their kids are growing. And that’s how we got into toys and books and lunchboxes and all of that stuff was keeping those, keeping those customers engaged that we’ve had for years once they no longer need nappies anymore because there is, there is a limit. They might say there’s not, but there should be a limit of how many nappies you have.
Sarah: Isn’t the limit the bank account?Â
Hannah: Pretty much yeah.Â
Sarah: How much washing you want to do. How much space you’ve got to store them.
If you could have lunch and discuss business with anyone dead or alive, doesn’t really matter, who would it be and why? It’s hard aye. It’s hard aye.
Hannah: At the moment my business coach in Auckland because we’re due to catch up. [That’s good] And that would be really good. [That’s great] Because I, I like I like talking with people who get what we’re doing and why we’re trying to do it. Thinking from a I guess a local perspective because I do think that matters, I think engaging with other business people who are New Zealand based is really important because I think how we do things in New Zealand is probably a bit unique compared to the rest of the world in the, it is that more personable side. Miria Flavell from Hine collection is one that I tried to catch up with for coffee a couple of times and our schedules just don’t don’t align. But the growth that Hine’s had over the last few years has been huge. And I think it would be really interesting to kind of look at how they’re doing things because they’re now doing 3PL warehousing, which we’re not. But they’ve they’ve
expanded quite drastically. I think, Renee, from Lactation Station, and I’ve, we catch up and expos and things but I think it’d be a great lunch to sit down and actually yarn and and talk about how we do things, and I think that’s that’s they’re probably the two off the top of my head.
But I think that’s the other thing about New Zealand is that we do tend to talk about things like, I’ll message Renee and say, hey, who do you use for such and such? And she’ll do the same with me. And even other cloth nappy business, you know we, we do message and say, you know how do you do this? How have you solved this problem? Oh and Ellis from For The Burrow who’s a cloth nappy company, in Kerikeri, her and I talk regularly but we’ve never actually met face to face. She’d be another one, I’d like to catch up.Â
Sarah: I love those relationships where they’ve all been, almost all virtually, I’ve definitely got some myself.
Hannah: I think it’s I think it’s nice talking to other people in the e-commerce space because I think it is quite different to, to retail. You’ve got different sets of problems and different priorities and things. So, yeah, it’s anybody that kind of works in that space. I really enjoy hearing how they do things because I think there’s always something to be learned from other people in business.
Sarah: Yep, yep. That’s definitely a very good approach to have to things aye, to have that open mind. You mentioned just before your business coach, when did you get a coach in your journey and what prompted you to do that?
Hannah: Yeah, so we, we’ve had two now well, two and a half. [Ah one of those] So actually I went through the business mentor program and it would have been when we were still fairly new and I didn’t really know what I needed, but I knew that it was a very affordable service, you pay a small sign up fee. And so I thought, you know, it’s worth giving it a go. And it wasn’t really the right fit. There were a couple of gleans of of knowledge that I gained. But overall, it wasn’t, it wasn’t what I needed. But I also don’t think I knew what I needed. So that was when we started. Then we went to an Australian based system where they it’s a program called Business Blueprint, and it’s brilliant. And they have a Facebook group and they’ve got loads of templates and resources and learnings education online. And they do conferences and things, brilliant information. I’m not, it’s not that I’m not self-motivated enough. It’s that I need somebody to kind of keep me on track a little bit more, rather than handing me all the information and saying, go nuts, I look at it and go, I don’t know where to start. So while it’s a great system, it wasn’t necessarily what we needed. And then last year I kind of looked at where we were at financially. And when I feel like we’ve been kind of easy ish to get to this point, like we’re, we’ve just this week turned over a million dollars revenue for this financial year. And I kind of went, yeah, that was awesome [17th March, well done]. We slid in this financial year, we and you know what, without sounding cocky it felt like that first millions been kind of easy, like it’s just kind of naturally, it’s all been a natural progression, a natural growth. But if we want to get to three to five mil a year, that’s going to require strategy and systems and planning and structure and all those things where I kind of feel like I just kind of make it up as I go along. And I’ve obviously got decent intuition because it’s gotten us to this point. But I was like, I need, I know that to get to that next stage of growth, we’re going to need help. So I did a bit of research through the Regional Business Partners Networkand found somebody that I really wanted to work with and messaged him and he couldn’t because he was working with a competing business at the time. I was gutted and then I just sat on it and I was like, oh, well, I’ll figure it out later, I’ll put it on the to do list. And then he ended up visiting me towards the end of last year and said, I finished my term with the other business, if you’re still interested. I was like, yep, so I jumped on that. So we met in January and now we meet quarterly, so next catch up’s next week. And it’s been a bit of a game changer because it’s helped us put together an actual strategic plan and quarterly and annual goals and things, so I’ve got a bit more focus on what it is that we’re working on to try to achieve outside of the day to day.
Sarah: I think even though you might not realize it, the fact that identified early on and went down the route of talking to business mentors NZ, is, is not something everybody does. So I guess you had that awareness that having that external coach really can help you move things forward in a way. And what you can’t do by yourself it’s yeah.
Hannah: And I mean, I don’t know whether it’s a, it’s a female thing, but I do think that we underestimate our abilities a little bit. And I think, you know, lots of people come to me and ask for advice and I think a lot of the time I feel like I’m not really qualified to give them because I feel like I kind of just made this up and it just sort of happened. But if I actually stop and look at what we’ve done, there has been method to the madness and you know there is some structure in place and we do do things for a certain reason. It’s just about identifying that. And now, honing in on what works and what doesn’t and sometimes having that outsider who gets the e-commerce space, they might not get nappies, But that’s not really important. They don’t have to understand the product. They have to understand what we’re doing. And kind of I guess has that passion and belief in us that they want to help along the way. And that’s something we’ve kind of focused on with everybody we outsourced to, you know, from you guys with marketing, through the HR, accounting, everybody is they really got to get our business. Because when you’re like when when those people are on board, they become more like a team as a part of your team as opposed to just a contract or just a business you pay. You want people to feel like
they’re apart of your team.
Sarah: Yeah. How have you found that process finding the right people to be part of the team, whether it’s physically or otherwise? It can be challenging, but it seems like you’ve done a really good job and you feel quite, you know, [yeah] where you’re at now.Â
Hannah: I think prior to Bear & Moo, I owned, I still do own a business as a marriage celebrant and wedding planner. And I think things like that, I’ve, that’s been running six or seven years and I think I’ve had either three or four websites in that time because every time I went with the person that was recommended or the person I thought I had to go with, and then I realized the issues that we’ve had. And so then we found somebody else who has helped with those issues. And and it’s taken, it took me a long time to trust my gut a little bit. And I think when you’re in business, Facebook groups and things like that, you ask for recommendations and the same people pop up and you go oh well they must be good. So you go with them. But it’s not actually about whether the person is good. It’s about whether they get your business. So somebody could be epic and just not the right person for you. And so it has been a lot of trusting my gut and a lot of being willing to talk to multiple options and then going, OK this feels right. And I think that’s a perk that we have as women in business is we kind of do have that sixth sense and that intuition that isn’t necessarily always about like I don’t choose based on the cheapest option, ever for anything pretty much because I look at all the factors and go this one’s going to cost me extra $10 a month but it’s going to do what I want and it’s going to save time or this person’s going to get me more or whatever. It’s about that quality or the over price every time. Which is a luxury that comes with making more money, is that you can afford to spend more on things that matter, but, yeah not being afraid to look elsewhere and find the right people I guess.
Sarah: Well you often find that if you haven’t found the right person or software or whatever it is, that you’re purchasing, that it ends up costing you more in the long run anyway because it makes the job harder. [Absolutely]. Whether it’s something, you know something to do with inventory management or anything, if you end up with the wrong solution it ends up taking you 6 months long.
Hannah: Yeah, I mean, as an element of done is better than perfect. And I know that we started off that way. Like I threw together a website in one night and went, oh, well, we’ve got a website now and we’ll just adapt it and change it and fix things as we go. But then there’s definitely other elements, like we had an accountant for two years who was a friend of a friend. He always did my celebrancy accounts. It was it was cheap. It was easy. He was great. But his company doesn’t focus on small businesses. And so once Bear & Moo started to get big, I was like, I need somebody who gets who we are, what we’re doing, where we’re going, because that’s very different to the type of accounting I’ve needed before.Â
Sarah: And e-commerce lots of accountants don’t get e-commerce too.Â
Hannah: Yeah, yeah. And so I messaged a girl that I knew of. We hadn’t met in real life. We were in a Facebook group together and she was a customer. And I sent her a message I was like, do I remember something about you being an accountant or you working for an accountant she’s like, yeah, I do the marketing, my husband’s an accountant. And this was an Instagram message at ten o’clock on a weeknight. And I was like, OK. And so I sent her voice memo and I said this is where I’m at and he replied to that voice memo at 10/10:30 on a week night and was like, cool, I’ll leave it with my wife. She can set up a time. We can have a zoom and see if we’re the right fit. But it was that casualness about it. But that very first call, I was like, you get it, you get who I am, you get where I’m going. I want in. Yep. And the quote probably could have come back at almost anything. And I would have signed up because I felt like it was the right person. It was in the realm of everybody else though, so we were a bit still, and it was the same thing with the business coach. First time we sit down and talked, fifteen minutes on Zoom and I was like I want him, I want to work with him because you’re going to to help me get where I want to go. So I think there is a lot of. Yeah. Gut instinct that we run on sometimes.Â
Sarah: No but it’s definitely, I’ve experienced the same thing, where you do trust that it always works out much better than when you don’t for whatever external reason that’s telling you something otherwise, it just turns to a disaster. [It really does] I feel like this is not right. Yeah follow that instinct. What are some of your favorite Instagram accounts?
Hannah: Ooh.Â
Sarah: When you’re not, when you’re not on the recording end.
Hannah: So I, I keep Instagram smallish from a who I follow perspective because I like to try to keep up with the stories of the majority of the people that I follow because they’re people I’m interested in or are friends. So I tend to follow like customers and brand reps who turned into friends and things like that, like Caitlyn from The Thirty Something Mama and Anna at Hello Hollingsworth and Courtney at Coukii and you know some of those who started off as customers
who are now friends or staff. And then from a I guess from a bigger perspective, I still really enjoy Jordan Whitaker and Erana from Culture of Grace. Cherie at Pepper and Me is always a great laugh. Cherie and I have caught up a couple of times and she’s good value. Em from OfficiallyEm. So there’s a few that I kind of try to keep on top of regularly.
Sarah: Yeah. You can see the trend in there straightaway.
Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s relatability. And I enjoy watching Anita from Global Baby because
she does a lot of business chats which I really like seeing. And Renee from Lactation Station,
but I like seeing things from that business perspective as well. I like when people are quite open and real about how they’re doing and how they do things. So, yeah, friends, moms, relatable business.Â
Sarah: It’s always interesting to ask because you come across different people that you might not have heard of before as well, because it’s like so many people out there to follow.
Hannah: I know, I’m like let me open my account and see who comes up at the top. Shannon Mallinger and Lynn from This Little Cakery, Stuff Renee Says, Hannah Little Giants Kids Store, which another small business in Auckland, Summer Brons, Love from your dads, you like it’s,
 yeah, it’s a lot of, probably a lot, I think in New Zealand we do get a little bit same, same with influences and that we often follow a lot of the same people. But generally, if that’s happening, there’s a reason for it.
Sarah: Similar markets that’s all. Random question, looking back on when you were young, say oh in your teens or something or even younger maybe, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Hannah: When I was a kid, I always wanted to be an actress. Always, that was my, I was going to be famous, I was going to, everybody was going to know my name. I was, yep, that was my dream. [They all know your name just in a different way]. Just for nappies now.
Sarah: Yeah. And now your just that nappy lady.
Hannah: Yeah. And then from there, I think journalism was probably pretty high on my list. When I started at uni, I wanted to do public relations and media studies and then switched and did PR and marketing instead which is probably been a little bit more helpful in the past. But, typically I think, I don’t think I’m particularly suited to a corporate environment anymore. So there’s a lot that I learnt when I kind of all went oh yeah I don’t know if I want to do that. But yeah, I think acting and then probably journalism was the other. [Was the other biggy]Â
Sarah: But massive elements of those come into come into what you do now [Oh yeah] around communication and you know [public speaking]. That nappy lady.
Hannah: Yeah, I think lots of people struggle in business with things like showing up on social media and they hate talking to themselves on camera and things like that. I just, just don’t care, I’m just so Blasé about it and I’m like ah sweet as. So I that’s definitely helped, I think. Yeah. Having that, having zero F’s to give probably helps a little bit when it comes to being on social media.
Sarah: I can’t say there’s any big surprises in what you said there. No not really. You kind of briefly spoke about it, but where to next for Bear & Moo?
Hannah: So continued growth is the big one. I was at a conference, I don’t even remember when six months ago maybe, and one of the speakers said something that was, kind of stuck with me, which was about how as an entrepreneur, your job isn’t to hustle. Your job is to grow the business in order to create employment for others. And that’s been something that, like we started the business to make money and build a lifestyle for our family, which we’ve done, my husband’s now part of the business ish, slash stay at home dad. I can kind of swan in and out a little bit, I’m twenty seven weeks pregnant and if I’m tired, I go home and I rest and I don’t have to be here for things to tick over. But the more we grow, the more people I can hire and the more primarily women based on the industry we’re in, we can support financially with an income that helps them support their families and live their dreams. So, yeah, for me, the more we grow, the more people we can support, the more people we can outsource to the other businesses we can support. So [sky’s the limit] probably, yeah, exactly, more products, more products because why not, bigger warehouse, we’ve got 18 months left here and we’re already growing out of it. So we’ll move. We might we might have like a showroomy shopfront as part of that when we move. I don’t want to do full retail, but I’d like to be in more retailers. And then I don’t know, take over the world I guess, expand internationally. So why not. [Small goals].
Sarah: Na good on you. [Small goals, yeah]. Fantastic. Thanks a lot for sharing your time and wisdom with everyone today [no worries] it’s been absolutely lovely.
Hannah: No worries. Always, always happy to talk business.
